Searchlight Crusade

Right now lender X is offering me a loan that looks something like this:

80/20 No down payment
On the /80: 6.5% FIXED interest for 30 years, interest-only payment option for 15 years
On the /20: 8.75% FIXED interest for 25 years (amortized to 30) 6-month lock for 1-point ($3800) refundable fee with float-down option

My response:

Devil is in the details.

Is there a pre-payment penalty?

They want 1 point to lock for 6 months? Cash, I presume? Quite frankly, the usual cost for locking in six months out is about three points. Nor is X usually that cheap on the lock (they have some excellent rates, but what they’re quoting you is a market current quote for a 30 day lock. Long term rates are expected to rise, and long lock periods aren’t free. There’s something they are not telling you.)

What are the discount/origination on the underlying loan? How much are they going to charge in closing costs to get it done?

Will they guarantee their quoted costs (as in they eat the difference if there is one, not you)? You might want to ask them all of the questions here

A developer’s condo sell out is not the most difficult loan, but it’s a long way from the easiest, as well. There are a lot of lenders that will not do them. Furthermore, what’s being presented to you looks much cheaper than is likely to be true. If you insist on going with it, call me thirty days before the place will be done, and I’ll do a back up loan, because I don’t think what they’re offering you is real.

(Note: due to changes in the market, nobody can do backup loans any more, but that was a real offer at the time)

he did get back to me as to what lender X’s response was:

Is there any pre-payment penalty on this loan? NO…..

What is the total refundable cost for the 6-month lock? YOU PAY 1% UP FRONT AND IT IS REFUNDABLE IF YOU CLOSE WITHIN 6 MONTHS (emphasis mine)

How much will the closing costs be to get this loan done? I DON’T KNOW WHAT YOUR ESCROW AND TITLE COSTS WILL BE. YOUR LENDERS COSTS WILL BE APPROXIMATELY $1,200. (emphasis mine)

Is the rate being quoted based upon full documentation, stated income, NINA or EZ Doc? 100% FINANCING IS FULL DOC….

Do I have to pay any discount points, points of origination, or any other points to get the quoted rates? NO POINTS NOR ORIGINATION FEE (ONLY THE 1% LOCK IN FEE OF WHICH WE SPOKE) (I prefer no points)

Regarding third party costs, can you tell me, or will the papers you send me make clear, the following third party costs:
– Appraisal fee: THIS SHOULD BE AROUND $400 BUT IS PART OF THE $1,200 I QUOTED.

– Total title charges: ??????????

– Escrow fee: ???????????

The builder has already assigned an escrow and title company for the property — may I use this company with the (lender X) loan? YES!

How much, total, will I be expected to pay X upfront, out of my pocket, to get this loan? THE $400 FOR THE APPRAISAL AND THE 1% TO LOCK IN….

How much, total, if any, will be added to my mortgage balance on top of what is quoted? ????????????????? NOTHING IS ADDED TO YOUR MORTGAGE.

If I agree to this loan after reviewing the papers, are the rate and closing costs guaranteed, and will X cover the difference (if any) between the quote and the actual final cost? WE’VE BEEN IN BUSINESS SINCE X. WE CONTINUE TO STAND BY OUR COMMITMENTS. (emphasis mine)

Now for the emphasis points, last first

-This question of is the rate guaranteed requires a simple yes/no response. This evasive reply tells you the answer is no, but that they don’t want to admit it. If this answer is not yes, none of the other stuff is written in anything more permanent than beach sand somewhere below the high tide line. It’s funny they mention commitments. Neither a Good Faith Estimate nor a Mortgage Loan Disclosure Statement (the California equivalent) is a loan commitment, or any kind of commitment at all. Regulations leave so much room for the unethical to maneuver without running afoul of the law that either one of those forms is nothing more than the loan officer or company wants it to be. A few are right on, and those companies will typically guarantee their quote. More are somewhere in the ballpark, amazingly enough usually noticeably on the low side. And quite a large fraction are nothing more than an exercise in creative writing. He didn’t guarantee his quote. Tell me this: Two companies are bidding on doing building work for you. Both are large firms. The first company asks you all sorts of questions about specifications, and guarantees they’ll get it done for $5000, and if there’s a problem on their end, they will fix it for no additional money. The second says they think they can do it for $4500. Which would you feel more comfortable with? If you know anything about building contractors, the latter is a joke compared to the former. Lenders and estimates on the initial paperwork to get you to sign up are, if anything, worse.

-I do business with this lender. Their costs are $1295 not including the appraisal to brokers, who perform some of the services they charge their clients for performing. By the time you’ve added escrow and title, you’re roughly at the $3400 mark.

-It’s easy to talk a good game to most folks who aren’t experienced with how the game is played. The point of this particular game is trying to lock you in with that 1 percent cash upfront payment, so that when clients discover that he’s not going to be able to deliver what he’s talking about, they’ll be thinking about recovering/losing that money, rather than focusing your attention on getting the best loan. This is called creating a distraction, and is in accordance with the tell you anything to get you to sign up school of thought.

When it comes time to close, he’d be licking his chops due to the fact that the client paid $3500 (or whatever one point comes to) cash upfront, and when he delivered something different, the client believes they have no choice but to agree in order to save their money. I’ve offered people in that situation a loan that was more than 1 point better, and they still went with the guy who had rooked them out of the 1% upfront, because they’re worried about that cash when they should be worried about the rate/cost tradeoff.

He also went to the builder’s lender

If I’m interested in getting my monthly payments down lower and I consider getting a 5/1 ARM loan to do so, is that a completely horrible idea, or could I refinance into another 5/1 ARM after the first five years to continue getting a pretty good rate, if for example the 30-year fixed rates
have gone up a bunch in 5 years?

That’s precisely what I’ve been doing for the past fifteen years. On the other hand, with the difference in rate/cost tradeoff being so narrow right now between a thirty fixed and a 5/1 (roughly a quarter of a percent interest rate wise), there’s a strong argument to be made for the loan you never have to wonder about. Where I thought I would never have a thirty year fixed rate mortgage, I’d consider it if I were going to buy or refi right now. Don’t know if I’d do it, but I’d think about it.

80/20 No-down 5/1 ARM
No pre-payment penalty
Total loan amount: $379,900

80%, $303,000: 5.25% fixed & interest-only for 5 years, payment: $1329.65
20%, $78,000: 9.5% fixed for 5 years, interest-only for 15 years, payment: $601.50

Total monthly payment: $1931.15

Aside from the fact that the putative loans total $381,000, which is likely picking nits, I don’t believe that loan exists, as 5/1 ARMS are running up around 6.25% at “par” right now. I couldn’t find a lender that is even offering 5.25, no matter how many points you paid, and that’s wholesale. He attached some GFEs which show $4180 in points charges (plus $875 in pure junk fees and about $150 in well padded costs on the first loan and shorted the likely interest, in addition to all the real stuff), adds $5000 that he’s evidently already paid to the closing costs, requires another $3200 plus at closing, and still comes up with final first loan of $303,920.

On the second, the loan required another $1140 in fees but a loan amount of only $75980, thereby balancing the 80/20 requirement correctly, at least, thereby negating the nitpick in the previous paragraph.

(I’d also shoot his agent for not negotiating any givebacks, given the current market, except I’m prepared to bet he didn’t have one. I’ve covered some of these issues, precisely as they relate to this particular situation, at the end of this article), of which which I’ll reproduce the relevant section here

Unfortunately, you’ve already (probably) put a deposit down and you said in subsequent email that the home has appreciated while it was being built, so the developer has incentive to throw roadblocks in your path. Your transaction falls through and not only do they get to keep your deposit but they can turn around and sell the home for more. Preventing this kind of nonsense is what buyer’s agents are for (it also gives you someone easy to sue if something goes wrong!). Unfortunately, most developers will not cooperate by paying a commission to buyer’s agents for precisely this reason, which means that the average buyer will decline to pay an agent out of their own pocket and try to do the transaction on their own, which leads to situations like this.

Now the market is falling, but it looks like to me the guy paid full asking price (since he’s local to me, I can look), and the market is incredibly squishy on prices.

Now getting back to the loans, this is how lenders Play The Game of getting you to sign up. They are looking for you to build what salesfolk call commitment to a loan before they tell you the whole truth – usually by springing it on you at closing. They make it look better than it is for a while. They can do this because the only form that has to have correct accounting is the HUD 1, which comes at the very end of the process (It’s usually prepared by the escrow officer. You should get a provisional when you sign loan documents and a final within 30 days of the end of the transaction). In the case of a purchase, this is usually at the last possible instant, which means that if you haven’t prepared a back-up loan there is no time to get one before the deal goes south, which means your choices are limited to sign or lose the property, the deposit, and all that time and aggravation. This is providing that you even notice. Industry statistics say that somewhere around half the folks won’t, and even on refinancing, where people can almost always just keep the loan they have without bad consequences, eighty-five percent or so of those who do notice will cave in and sign.

Caveat Emptor

Not interested? Most people aren’t when it’s talking about how they got taken advantage of in the past. First off, it’s in the past so it is over and done with, and there’s no use dwelling on it, right? Second, there’s the ego thing. Nobody who’s been bragging about what a great deal they got likes to find out they’ve been had. Taken for a ride. Conned. Big time.

Anyone reading this who isn’t interested in improving what happens next time can tune out now, because that’s what the rest of this article is about: educating you in how to shop for a loan and what the tricks are, and if you’ve never had a real estate loan but want one someday, chances are you’ll benefit from reading it to. If you’re the sort of person who isn’t interested in improving your future loan, chances are you’re not a regular reader because helping folks understand their financial options for next time is the most consistent thing I do here.

On a very regular basis people tell me how they got taken advantage of by a loan provider. Actually, a lot of them think they’re bragging about what a great deal they think they got, when in their situation, I wouldn’t take that loan if the bank paid me. High points charges that stick around in the balance essentially forever. Points on hybrid ARM loans (3/1, 5/1 and 2/28 are the most common). Prepayment penalties, especially needless prepayment penalties, or prepayment penalties that last longer than the period of fixed interest rate. Fixed rate loans where hybrid ARMS are more appropriate. Long terms where a shorter term would be more in your best interest. Most loan officers are looking for an easy sale, and no loan officer ever complains that a sale was too easy to make. Failing an easy sale, they’ll look for any sale. If they don’t get you signed up for any loan, they don’t make any money. They are not responsible for your best interest, they are responsible for making money and not stepping over legal limits which are very different (in the sense of being less restrictive to loan officers) than most members of the public believe. If ever a loan officer tells you that in your circumstances, they wouldn’t refinance, make sure you get their contact information and put it someplace you will be able to find it when you go looking for your next loan.

First off, if your credit score is above about 660 and you have a prepayment penalty, chances are excellent that you were taken for a ride. People with credit scores above 660 should usually be A paper, not subprime. A paper does not need a prepayment penalty except when the loan officer wants to get paid more. A 2 year prepayment penalty is worth a good chunk of change on the secondary bond market – usually about 4% of the loan amount. This means that if you have the $270,000 loan I use as the default here, they made almost $10,000 over and above the normal price spread when they sold your loan. And even when they retain servicing rights, lenders sell loans over 95 percent of the time. At the very least, you should get some kind of benefit for accepting a prepayment penalty A paper. A current “maximum conforming” loan of $417,000 would be worth almost $17,000 more to the lender with a prepayment penalty than without. This, all by itself, is often a reason they stick folks in subprime situations. If you think you’re A paper, make them show you the turn-down from the automated loan underwriting program before you even consider a subprime loan.

If your credit score is below 620, you’re almost certainly stuck with a loan where you have a prepayment penalty by default. Buying it off is usually a good idea, but buying them off isn’t free. Between 620 and 659, there’s some wiggle room as to whether you will get an A paper loan.

But most people never undertake the three most important steps they can to get a better loan. They don’t shop multiple lenders. They don’t ask for a guaranteed quote. And they certainly don’t sign up for a back up loan.

I’ve been looking for a new place to hang my license, and the one thing (other than looking for loan officers who don’t understand the way the business works) that most of the firms have in common is that they don’t want to compete on price. They know they may have to the first time, but they want the client that just automatically comes back to them that they can soak for two or three points on every loan, in addition to whatever they earn for the prepayment penalty. I understand this yearning very well; it’s a normal human desire to want to make more for the same amount of work, and also to lock up the customer for the future. If all you think about is how easy the loan is to get, you are these firms’ favorite type of client. Guess what? You may not see their extra $10,000 or $15,000 as a separate charge on any of your paperwork, but it is there and you are paying it, and someone who knows what they are looking for can find it. Most folks would never dream of paying $50 for the same toaster that everyone else is buying for $13.99 at Target, but the way loans are priced is confusing at first sight, and people don’t want to sort it out. It’s pretty easy, actually. Figure out what kind of loan you want and qualify for, then price the rate/cost trade-offs of that loan type amongst the various loan providers. Figure break-evens on the extra cost of the lower rate. One rule I have never encountered an exception to is that if a loan provider pushes a low payment to sell a loan, they are a crook. If they sell by interest rate, they may be worth talking to, providing the loan type is what you’re looking for. If they sell by the Tradeoff between rate and cost, they’re definitely worth talking to. And if someone suggests a different type, hear them out but make certain they tell you all of the details. There is always a reason why one loan is significantly cheaper than another loan

Another very common tactic used to induce your business is advertising. Remember the loan ads that went “Lost another one to (mega corporation which shall remain nameless)”? That particular mega corporation is not competitive rate-wise or underwriting wise with others. Joe ShadyBroker who earns six points on every loan can often deliver better rates than they can. What they were trying to via their advertising is create the illusion of low prices by telling you they have low prices. Then, when you call and they quote the superficially low payment due to a rate where you have to pay three points to get it, they’ve got the average potential client suckered. Because their payment on a 2/28 loan with a 3 year prepayment penalty where you have to pay three points to get the rate is lower than mine on a thirty year fixed with zero points, people will sign up. Why? Because it looks more attractive to them at first glance. Get the calculator and the checklist of questions and ask the questions and do the math. Nobody can take advantage of you without your consent, but those who allow themselves to be intimidated by numbers are giving their consent. Actually, with most places, it’s like begging, “Oh, please, I want to pay thousands of dollars more to get a higher interest rate!”

If someone doesn’t ask questions like “how long are you planning to keep it?” or “how long do you usually keep real estate loans?”, especially if they just launch right in to a spiel based upon a low payment, they are a cash-sucking Vampire. They may be an intelligent vampire doing what they are doing in full cognizance of what it does to you, or they may be an innocent vampire who doesn’t really understand the business and who is being controlled by a green-blooded master cash-sucking vampire, but in either case you don’t want to do business with them. Yes, these are sales questions. Yes, they get you talking to a salesperson, who then has a possible opening to talk you into something that may not be in your best interest. If they don’t ask the questions, I guarantee that they’re trying to push you into something that isn’t in your best interest. Which is better: Not talking to a salesperson and being certain of being messed with, or talking to a salesperson and possibly being messed with? Note that there is no option that says “Don’t talk to a salesperson and not get messed with.” If their people don’t know enough to help you from their own knowledge, those salesfolk were probably intentionally hired because they didn’t know any better. It is not a crime to make money. They are looking to make money, I am looking to make money, everybody in every line of business is looking to make money, including your employer – that’s how they pay you. If I were independently wealthy and never needed or wanted to make money again, I certainly wouldn’t be doing real estate loans, and neither would anyone else. You can take the attitude that you’re going to pay a reasonable amount, and while you can take steps to hold that amount down and make certain it doesn’t get outrageous, you know you’re going to pay what it costs, or you can take the attitude that a cheaper quote means you’ll actually get that rate at that cost when the overwhelming probability is that they’re lying to get you to sign up. You need to look gift horses in the mouth. If someone’s quoted fees are lower or higher than everyone else’s, there is a reason. If they’re too low, it’s probably because they’re pretending that a large percentage of what you are going to pay doesn’t exist, because that gets people to sign up. Ask them if they will guarantee their total fees and the rate in writing. If the answer is no, they are lying. Actually, most of the liars won’t tell you “no” in response to that question. They’ll tell you some line about how they’re a major corporation or how they honor their commitments or any of several other lines that mean absolutely nothing. The MLDS and Good Faith Estimate are not commitments. Major corporations pull the same games as everyone else. In fact, they usually get away with playing even worse ones than Joe ShadyBroker because of their “name recognition”.

So shop around. Ask every single prospective loan provider every single question in this article. Pull out the calculator to see if it’s believable, to see if the numbers work. Ask them if they’ll guarantee the quote, subject to underwriting. And then go out and apply for a back-up loan as well, because even if you’ve got a guarantee, it’s difficult to enforce, and impossible within the time frames most folks need the loan to be done.

The typical savings of being a savvy consumer is literally thousands of dollars every time you get a real estate loan. You may not see the savings directly on the HUD-1 at closing, but they will be present nonetheless. If you don’t accept a prepayment penalty, that’s thousands of dollars you’ve saved yourself down the line when you’ve been transferred and need to sell. If you get a rate that’s a quarter of a percent lower on a $270,000 loan, that’s $675 interest you are saving per year. That’s a couple of car payments; perhaps enough to let you buy for cash next time you need a car. If you invest the difference over the potential lifetime of your mortgage, a difference of over $127,000! If you save yourself the two extra points of origination that they were going to charge you, that’s over $5500 that either is in your pocket, and that you can invest or spend on other things, or $5500 that isn’t in your mortgage balance, where you’re going to pay hundreds of dollars in interest on it per year ($357.50 per year at 6.5% interest), in addition to owing the base sum.

My point is this, folks. If I were a financial advisor trying to score an extra quarter percent commission off of you, most of you would be upset. Many people are so upset by 0.25% 12b1 fees in mutual funds that they won’t pay the advisor who would save them a lot more money than the 0.25% per year simply by simply reminding them of sound investment principles. If I were a car salesperson trying to pad the cost of the car you were interested in by $5500, a large percentage of the population would most likely slug me. But because real estate transactions are complex and people don’t want to take the time to understand them, they unwittingly walk into situations like this, and many people do so repeatedly throughout their lives, making the same mistakes every two years. The dollar amounts are large enough that even small differences are thousands of dollars. If you’re not going to guard your pocketbook, most loan providers will pick it.

Now the workman is worthy of his or her hire. The person who gets you the loan is entitled to be paid. Judge the loans on the bottom line to you; how much it costs and what you will get. The proof that they got you a better deal was that they delivered a better loan, not that they made less money. And if the person who does your loan can make an extra half-point while actually delivering you a loan that is the same rate on the same loan at less cost than the other provider, haven’t they earned that money? You came out ahead because of their work – had you gone with any other loan, you would have paid more or had a higher rate. They made more. Definition of win-win. There is a loser here, by the way, but you’ll never know who it was. It is the lender that the broker you didn’t sign up with would have put you with. But by finding you a program you fit better, the loan officer you did sign up with got you a better deal and made more money. It happens every day, if you make the effort to look for it, and go about it in the right fashion.

Caveat Emptor

Every so often I run across a reference to a “rate buydown” I don’t like to use them because they don’t benefit the client, but I should explain them, what they are, and how they work.

A rate buydown is where for an upfront price, the lender agrees to give you a lowered interest rate for a time. 2/1/0 buydowns, where the rate is two percent lower the first year, one percent lower the second year, and then at the loan rate the third year, are the most common, but I’ve seen one year buydowns of two percent, two year buydowns of one percent for those first two years period, and any number of other tricks.

Now, this isn’t free. A 2/1/0 buydown usually costs three points. In fact, what usually happens is the three points go into an escrow account somewhere where they pay out the money to make up the difference in interest to the lenders as the loan goes along. When the buydown period is over, the lender who originally funded your loan then gets to keep what’s left over.

Now, here’s what this means to you. Let’s make this easy. Say you would have had a $291,000 loan, fixed at 7 percent, without a buydown. But with the buydown, you have a $300,000 loan at 5 percent the first year, six percent the second, and 7 percent from there on out. In order to really understand this, let’s first take a look at your loan without a buydown:

Month 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

Balance $291,000.00 $290,761.47 $290,521.55 $290,280.23 $290,037.50 $289,793.35 $289,547.78 $289,300.78 $289,052.34 $288,802.45 $288,551.10 $288,298.28 $288,043.99 $287,788.22 $287,530.95 $287,272.19 $287,011.91 $286,750.12 $286,486.80 $286,221.94 $285,955.54 $285,687.58 $285,418.06 $285,146.97

Payment $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03 $1,936.03

Interest $1,697.50 $1,696.11 $1,694.71 $1,693.30 $1,691.89 $1,690.46 $1,689.03 $1,687.59 $1,686.14 $1,684.68 $1,683.21 $1,681.74 $1,680.26 $1,678.76 $1,677.26 $1,675.75 $1,674.24 $1,672.71 $1,671.17 $1,669.63 $1,668.07 $1,666.51 $1,664.94 $1,663.36

Principal $238.53 $239.92 $241.32 $242.73 $244.14 $245.57 $247.00 $248.44 $249.89 $251.35 $252.82 $254.29 $255.77 $257.27 $258.77 $260.28 $261.79 $263.32 $264.86 $266.40 $267.96 $269.52 $271.09 $272.67

Tot Int. $1,697.50 $3,393.61 $5,088.32 $6,781.62 $8,473.50 $10,163.97 $11,852.99 $13,540.58 $15,226.72 $16,911.40 $18,594.62 $20,276.36 $21,956.61 $23,635.38 $25,312.64 $26,988.40 $28,662.63 $30,335.34 $32,006.51 $33,676.14 $35,344.22 $37,010.73 $38,675.67 $40,339.02

Tot Prin $238.53 $478.45 $719.77 $962.50 $1,206.65 $1,452.22 $1,699.22 $1,947.66 $2,197.55 $2,448.90 $2,701.72 $2,956.01 $3,211.78 $3,469.05 $3,727.81 $3,988.09 $4,249.88 $4,513.20 $4,778.06 $5,044.46 $5,312.42 $5,581.94 $5,853.03 $6,125.70

Now let’s look at it with the buydown:

Month 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

Balance $300,000.00 $299,639.54 $299,277.57 $298,914.09 $298,549.10 $298,182.59 $297,814.56 $297,444.99 $297,073.87 $296,701.22 $296,327.01 $295,951.24 $295,573.90 $295,257.63 $294,939.77 $294,620.32 $294,299.27 $293,976.62 $293,652.36 $293,326.47 $292,998.96 $292,669.81 $292,339.01 $292,006.55

Payment $1,610.46 $1,610.46 $1,610.46 $1,610.46 $1,610.46 $1,610.46 $1,610.46 $1,610.46 $1,610.46 $1,610.46 $1,610.46 $1,610.46 $1,794.15 $1,794.15 $1,794.15 $1,794.15 $1,794.15 $1,794.15 $1,794.15 $1,794.15 $1,794.15 $1,794.15 $1,794.15 $1,794.15

Interest $1,250.00 $1,248.50 $1,246.99 $1,245.48 $1,243.95 $1,242.43 $1,240.89 $1,239.35 $1,237.81 $1,236.26 $1,234.70 $1,233.13 $1,477.87 $1,476.29 $1,474.70 $1,473.10 $1,471.50 $1,469.88 $1,468.26 $1,466.63 $1,464.99 $1,463.35 $1,461.70 $1,460.03

Principal $360.46 $361.97 $363.48 $364.99 $366.51 $368.04 $369.57 $371.11 $372.66 $374.21 $375.77 $377.33 $316.28 $317.86 $319.45 $321.05 $322.65 $324.26 $325.89 $327.51 $329.15 $330.80 $332.45 $334.11

Tot Int. $1,250.00 $2,498.50 $3,745.49 $4,990.96 $6,234.92 $7,477.35 $8,718.24 $9,957.59 $11,195.40 $12,431.66 $13,666.35 $14,899.48 $16,377.35 $17,853.64 $19,328.34 $20,801.44 $22,272.94 $23,742.82 $25,211.08 $26,677.71 $28,142.71 $29,606.06 $31,067.75 $32,527.79

Tot Prin $360.46 $722.43 $1,085.91 $1,450.90 $1,817.41 $2,185.44 $2,555.01 $2,926.13 $3,298.78 $3,672.99 $4,048.76 $4,426.10 $4,742.37 $5,060.23 $5,379.68 $5,700.73 $6,023.38 $6,347.64 $6,673.53 $7,001.04 $7,330.19 $7,660.99 $7,993.45 $8,327.56

It is also to be noted that in the very next month, your payments go to $1982.23, as opposed to the $1936.03 they would have been in the first place, and that they will stay there the rest of the loan, all 336 months should you keep it the rest of that time. Why? Because your balance is larger than it otherwise would have been, so the payment is higher, in this case by $46.20, due to the higher loan amount.

Finally, let’s look at the differences:

Month 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24

Escrow Acct. $8,552.50 $8,176.27 $7,796.79 $7,414.04 $7,028.00 $6,638.63 $6,245.92 $5,849.83 $5,450.34 $5,047.43 $4,641.06 $4,231.22 $3,817.87 $3,647.29 $3,475.21 $3,301.60 $3,126.46 $2,949.78 $2,771.53 $2,591.72 $2,410.32 $2,227.32 $2,042.72 $1,856.50

Net cost $8,552.50 $7,982.95 $7,413.19 $6,843.21 $6,273.02 $5,702.62 $5,132.02 $4,561.21 $3,990.21 $3,419.02 $2,847.64 $2,276.08 $1,950.65 $1,687.67 $1,424.51 $1,161.18 $897.67 $633.98 $370.13 $106.11 -$158.09 -$422.44 -$686.97 -$951.65

What this means is that your lender’s escrow account ends up with $1850 that they get to keep, on top of everything else they made from the loan. The final column is the net cost to you, what you paid to get it less the interest it saved you. Hey, look at this! In month 21 it goes negative! You must be saving money if you keep it that long, right?

Nope. This is a temporary and illusory savings phenomenon, and I don’t know of any way to make it permanent. You see, the benefits stop in month 24. They are over. Kaput. Gone. That’s all, folks. But you owe $6798.14 more (at the start of month 25, not illustrated above) than you would have without the buydown. There are exactly three possibilities as to what happens. First, that you keep the loan. Due to the extra interest you’re paying every month, you are negative again in month 56, and it keeps getting worse the longer you keep the loan. After 120 months of the loan, you are $1755 down. This actually peaks in month 242 at $3351 negative, then starts decreasing, but you don’t get it back before the loan is paid off.

The second possibility is if you refinance the loan. Let’s say you get a really fantastic deal and refinance at 5 percent on a 30 year fixed rate loan, and I’ll even give you that your higher balance doesn’t cost you any more in fees. Your payment is $85.35 per month higher than it would otherwise have been, your interest charges $28.32 higher (and the difference represents you paying the principal off faster if you don’t pay for a buydown). Your savings is gone in less than three years, and there’s nothing you can do about it.

The third and final possibility is that you sell the house. You get $6798.14 less in your pocket. This means that you don’t have $6798.14 earning money for you in the stock market. At ten percent your benefit is gone in less than a year and a half. If you take the money and buy another property, that’s $6798.14 higher your loan balance will have to be. Let’s say you get that same fantastic 5% loan we talked about two paragraphs ago on the new property. Guess what? The same math applies here also. There is no way to win in the end with a buydown, unless someone else pays for it (for example, seller paid closing costs).

So they are a piece of garbage. Why are buydowns attractive, and why do otherwise rational people sign up for them?

Because they lower the payment for a while. People choose loans based upon the payment. In particular, they choose loans based upon the payment in the first check they are going to have to write. Most people figure that the check they are going to have to write two or five years out isn’t important. Unscrupulous lenders and loan officers know this. That’s why the (censored) negative amortization loans are so popular, despite them being time-delayed financial poison. So don’t shop for loans based upon the payment, and if someone starts talking about ways to cut the payment as opposed to the interest rate, put your hand on your wallet and leave. If they persist, drag them out into the sunlight and put a wooden stake through their heart. It’s the only way to be sure.

Before I go, I want to mention one specific group that gets targeted for these things, and that is veterans. The Veterans Administration loan, aka VA loan, has the ability to roll (not coincidentally) three points closing cost over and above the cost of the home into the loan. Most military folks are busy learning their trade, which is usually not something having to do with finance. Indeed, I’ve never heard of any MOS that included this type of financial training. So when the loan officer whispers sweet nothings into their ear about cutting the payments for the first couple of years, they don’t know any better and they sign right up. They could have used those three points for something potentially useful, like discount points that buy you a lower rate for the entire term of a VA loan. If you keep it long enough, they will eventually net you money and the VA only accepts fixed rate loans, not ARMS or hybrids. The veterans could just not pay those three points, and not start out with what is basically negative equity. But rate buydowns make a loan appear attractive on the surface to someone with insufficient financial training, while costing them money in the long term and allowing the initial lender to make more money than they otherwise would.

Caveat Emptor

Hi Dan wondering if you could help me out I’m getting a lot of different answers from a lot of people and I’m really searching for help I bought my house brand new (three years ago) for 550,000, and (the next year) I refinanced into a mta loan. which at that time was around 4.25% and now is 7.125%. I have a hard prepay of $12,000.00 which expires in (fifteen months) house just appraised for $775,00 balance on 1st loan 440,000 balance on 2nd 148,000. should I ride the next 15 months out to avoid pre pay or refinance now into a fixed. The rate on the second is prime plus zero.

First off, a disclaimer. A precise infallible answer depends upon the rates when your prepayment penalty expires, something that is not currently known. I think thirty year fixeds will be in the low sevens, but I might as well be sorting through animal entrails to get that answer. I also think that the five year hybrid ARMS will stay about where they are, or perhaps even decrease a tad once the fed announces that they are done with hikes. But I don’t know; nobody does. It also depends upon what comparable homes are selling for then, which determine your appraisal, and how long you keep the new loan.

Your rate moving like that is one of the reasons I recommend so strongly against negative amortization loans. The person who did your loan at the time had to know that, due to the nature of the mta yours is based upon, the rates were already set to rise into the mid fives for certain, and likely further, as older months were dropped from the average in favor of newer. Were it fully explained, would anyone rational agree to take a loan where you get a lower rate for six months, but then the rate rises inexorably, as the treasury rates the loan is based upon had already been rising, to a level that is well above what is available on A paper three or five year fixed? And with a three year prepayment penalty, so you’re in precisely this sort of situation?

“No points” thirty year fixed rate loans are sitting right around 6.75 right now, and you’re at 75% Loan to Value. The bad news is you’re definitely a jumbo loan, as the conforming limit is $417,000. This boosts your rate a tad, depending upon the lender, to 6.875 or 7.00 percent without points. I prefer to discuss loans without prepayment penalties or points, but it might be in your best interest to pay a little to buy the rate down if you refinance. I’m going to use seven, as it makes the math slightly easier.

The good news is your loan to value ratio. According to the numbers you gave me, you’re below 80 percent, even with the prepayment penalty. You owe $588,000 (If you bought for $550,000, the turkey did this negative amortization loan scammed you out of a lot of money), and the prepayment penalty boosts this to $600,000. Assuming you have enough liquid reserves to put up the money for interest and impounds, this means the costs of doing your loan are going to put you at about at $605,000 new balance (perhaps a bit below, but let’s keep the math as friendly as possible).

Basically, it cost you $17,000 to save yourself an eighth of a percent on the interest rate. Under more normal circumstances, I wouldn’t even put that one through the calculator. No way that’s in your best interest. But your real rate on that MTA is going to keep rising – by at least another quarter percent due to increases already on the books, more likely half. I’ll use 7.5 as your mean rate. Furthermore, the second is at 8 percent, likely to soon be 8.25. Monthly interest under the current loan at that rate: $2750 for the first, $987 for the second as it is. Monthly interest on the new loan, $3530. It saves you $200 per month in interest, albeit with a higher payment, $4025 as opposed to what you’ve got now. I am assuming you have documentation that you make enough money to justify the loan in the underwriter’s eyes, and that your credit score is about average. On the other hand, divide $17,000 by $200 per month, and you get 85 months to break even on the cost of doing it.

However, this decision does not take place in a vacuum. You can’t let that negative amortization loan go forever. In fifteen months, I think equivalent rates will be about 7.25, which translates to 7.5 percent for your loan. Furthermore, I believe prices will be a little lower then, so in order to refinance, you’re likely to have to split into two loans. Assume prices are 10 percent lower. Any of these prognostications is an educated market guess, no more, and I could be way off. The appraisal would come in just under $700,000, but let’s say $700,000. Your first, for $560,000, would be at 7.5%, and for your second, I’ll presume you get a new HELOC on the same terms, on which the balance would be about $33,000. Interest on first and second, at 7.5% and 8.25% respectively, comes to $3500 plus $227. The payment on the first would be $3915, plus $227 (assuming interest only HELOC) for a total of $4142. So $12,000 saved if you wait, versus about $200 per month less in interest charges per month if you dive in. Divide that out and it comes out to 60 months. Five years. If you keep the new loan five years, approximately, or more, you’ll be better off refinancing now. If you keep it less than five years, you’re better off waiting is what the calculations say. Plus chop off the $200 per month you save starting right now for the next fifteen months, and the answer turns into forty five months or a little less, being your time until break-even.

I’m a reasonable risk taker. Were I plopped down in your situation, I have to tell you I would probably hang tight until the prepayment penalty expires. Roll the dice and bet on my personal ability to come up with a good loan. On the other hand, you may not be as much of a risk-taker as I am. The stuff I quoted you for refinancing now is available now, no suppositions about it. The rates could well be higher in fifteen months than I have estimated, perhaps much higher, or they could be lower (although I don’t think so with increased federal borrowing). You need to decide what your level of comfort is. If you’re the sort that is averse to risk, refinancing now could pay for itself just in peace of mind, because you’re not worrying about it. That’s why I always offer a 30 year fixed rate loan, no matter how wide the interest rate spread is between that and my favorite hybrid ARM. There are folks who just won’t sleep nights. The difference comes out to about $7 per night, and my sleep is worth more than that, so I presume yours is, as well.

Caveat Emptor.

I got a question about “what does it mean if my loan is not funded after right of rescission?”

It likely means your loan provider lied to you, probably from day one. Once you have signed documents, there shouldn’t be anything but procedural matters left. Things that cannot be taken care of earlier. Things like final payoff coordination, the escrow officer using funds to pay homeowners insurance. Every once in a while, a good loan officer will get a subordination moved to prior to funding because it’s on the way, but it is necessary to start the three day right of rescission now in order to fund on time under the lock.

Every once in a while, it’ll be because of something happening to you in the meantime. Lenders who are risking hundreds of thousands of dollars don’t just sit there and presume nothing has changed since the first time they checked it out. They are going to check again, right before they put the money to the loan, to make certain that nothing the loan was based upon has changed. So sometimes while they are doing a final Verification of Employment (making certain you still work there), the answer comes back that the borrower doesn’t. The final credit check comes back with a score that no longer qualifies under that program. These are not the loan officer’s fault, except inasmuch as they didn’t warn you not to do whatever it was. Whether you quit your job or were fired, the result is no loan. So I always tell folks not to change anything about their life or credit without checking with me first. Neither I nor they can really do anything about layoffs, of course, but the point is not to voluntarily do anything that messes up your loan.

The vast majority of the time, however, what’s going on is that the loan officer never had the loan. There’s some condition holding it back that you, the borrower, can’t meet. They have a choice between hoping to get around it or going out and actually finding a loan that you can qualify for and telling you about that instead. I shouldn’t have to draw you a picture as to which choice they will likely make. Many times, they were teasing you with a loan that you had no hope of qualifying for as an incentive to get you to sign up. This is a standard “trick”. They get you wanting that loan, which sure sounds good, and you apply. Unfortunately, that loan was never real, or never something you had a chance of qualifying for, but now they’ve got you signed up. Now you’ve done their paperwork, and you’re mentally committed to their loan.

Now if it’s an honest mistake, they are not going to have you sign documents. They’re going to come back and tell you as soon as there is a condition they can’t meet on loan qualification. But the question was about when you have signed documents and the loan doesn’t fund. They can keep stringing you along, hoping it will happen, or they can come clean and tell you they can’t do the loan. In the first instance, they might still get paid. In the second, they likely won’t, because if you’re smart you’ll go elsewhere. Needless to say, this can waste a lot of time getting “one more document” from you or jumping through one more hoop. If the loan doesn’t fund at the end of the rescission period and you are not certain as to why, you’ve probably been had. This is why I always tell people to ask for a copy of all outstanding conditions on the loan commitment before you sign final loan documents. Ask them to explain them, too. You see, once you sign loan documents and the rescission period expires, you’re stuck with that loan provider. You can’t go elsewhere unless and until they give up. Even if you have a back-up loan waiting to go, they can’t do anything until the other loan funds or gives up, which could be weeks. Not a bad situation for an unethical loan provider to be in. In the meantime, the seller cancels your purchase and you’re out the deposit. Or the rates go up and you’re not getting a refinance on anything like the terms you might have really qualified for at the start of the process.

Caveat Emptor

“challenging underwriters mistakes in housing loan paperwork” was a search that I got.

You can’t challenge them. Butting heads with an underwriter is stupid and counterproductive. There’s only one person who gets a vote, and it’s not you, whether you are an applicant, processor, or loan officer. The underwriter may not be the original application of the saying “a majority of one,” but it certainly fits the situation.

Now keep in mind that as an applicant, you will never communicate directly with your underwriter. It is an anti-fraud measure constant throughout the industry. If someone tells you that you are talking to your loan’s underwriter, either they are lying or the loan has just been rejected on procedural grounds.

If a loan officer believes that the underwriter has made a mistake in the underwriting of the loan, it is far more constructive to find out what it was – on what grounds the client was rejected. Actually, loans usually are not flatly rejected, they simply come back with conditions the client cannot meet. A loan that actually gets rejected usually has further adverse consequences for the borrower’s credit, and is usually pretty good evidence that the loan officer was promising something they couldn’t deliver.

Now it happens that underwriters, like loan officers miscompute things, miss things, and misconstrue things. This is one of the hardest lessons for a loan officer to learn: NEVER tell the underwriter anything that they do not absolutely have to know in order to approve the loan. The client has a rich uncle that gives them $10,000 every year? The client makes millions in the stock market as well as their salary? The client simply has millions in assets and they could buy the property for cash if they wanted? I wouldn’t breathe a word of any of this to the underwriter. Not a peep, if I had my druthers. The underwriter will start asking all kinds of questions, asking for all kinds of documentation, both on the existing assets or income and on the likelihood of it continuing. If you’re familiar with how the stock market works, you might have an appreciation for how hard it can be to prove that you’re going to have income from it in the future. That underwriter isn’t interested in trends or suppositions or even the fact that it’s happened the last twenty years in a row. They want proof it’s going to happen in the coming years. When accountants won’t write a testimonial (trust me, they won’t), you’re probably out of luck.`

Now sometimes the underwriter comes back with conditions that are beyond the bounds of reason. Dealing with this is part of my job, but it’s more akin to a negotiation than a confrontation. I’ve got to get them to tell me what has them concerned, and see if there isn’t some other way to reassure them. Remember, if the loan goes sour, both the underwriter and I are going to hear about it. It may cost them their job, and I may have to come up with thousands of dollars to pay the lender. Not to mention that the client isn’t exactly happy. The underwriting process, properly used, is as much for the protection of the client as the lender.

So what I’ve got to do is find out what concern caused the underwriter to place this condition on the loan, and then a more reasonable alternative may suggest itself. If you ask in the right way, conditions can be changed if the request is reasonable. But you’ve got to know what you’re doing. If the alternative you suggest does not adequately address the underwriter’s concerns, they are within not only their rights, but also in full compliance with regulations where you are probably not, to refuse to make the change. Sometimes the underwriter and the loan officer disagree as to the computation of income, for example. By definition, the underwriter is right – unless I can persuade them that my way is better. Just human nature, you can’t do that by challenging them, you have to persuade.

Now it is possible to run into an intransigent underwriter. That’s one reason why brokers have the advantage over direct lenders, who are stuck with the same group of underwriters all the time. I can pull the loan and resubmit it elsewhere. Given that particular lender isn’t going to approve the loan anyway, they won’t fight too hard, although on several occasions I have had the lender come back and issue an exception on their own when I do that, but the ability and willingness to actually take it elsewhere is essential to this. And it is sometimes possible to go over a given underwriter’s head and get an exception from the supervisor, but it tends to poison the well when you attempt this, whether it is successful or not. When you’re asking for special consideration for your clients, they tend to look much harder at all of your clients. I’ve seen a couple loan officers talk themselves into one approval through an exception with the supervisor, only to have their other loans that were going through smoothly kicked back out for further underwriting. So you have one happy client, and three or four that otherwise would have been happy and who now are not. Sounds great if you’re that one client, but how would you like to be one of those three or four others? Not a good situation for anyone to be in. Taking the approach of collaboration works better.

Caveat Emptor.