Searchlight Crusade

“We have several rental properties that we own (more than 10). When we were younger, before we got married, we both moved around a lot and bought houses, moved, stayed a year or so and did it again. I of course don’t have to mention why we did this (no money down, low fixed rates, etc.) However, now I am running into a dilema. I am finding that no one wants to refi or do purchase money loans now that we have 10+ mortgages. I need good rates to make my cash flow work. I have recently herniated one of my discs and have been out of work for almost 3 months, so I need to take money out of our house that is paid for, but no one wants to do it. Any suggestions on how to get around that? My credit scores range from 763-805, so that is defintaely not the problem. Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I am down to crunch time in needing to get some money.”

Bad situation.

The reason for this problem is that whereas nationally, vacancy rates are much lower, and here in high cost California they are only running about 4 percent, the bank will only allow 75 percent of rent to be used in the calculation of whether you qualify or do not. Furthermore, on the negative side they charge the full payment, taxes, and homeowner’s insurance, as well as maintenance. Now, here in the high cost areas of California if there is a rental property bought within the last three years that’s turning a profit, I’d like to know about it. But for properties purchased several years ago here, and nationally in many markets, there are people making money hand over fist on rental properties whom the bank believes must be cash destitute. There is no way they will qualify for a mortgage loan without tweaking something.

There are two main ways to solve the problem.

10 mortgages (assuming you still own the properties) gives one serious status as a real estate investor. The loan should then be able to be done. Not necessarily A paper, but subprime with that kind of a credit score and a prepayment penalty will give them comparable – perhaps even better rates. Furthermore, on investment properties, there’s a minimum of about a 1.5 point to 2 point hit on the loan costs just due to the fact that it is investment property. So refinancing an investment property is not something you want to do often. If you can’t go 10 years between refinances, something is probably wrong. Especially given the extremely narrow spread between long term loans like the 30 year fixed rate loan and shorter term fixed rate hybrids, for investment property a 30 year fixed rate loan is likely the way to go.

But the key part is “real estate investor.”

This is a business. You’re going to need an accountant to attest to the fact that you’ve been operating this business at least two years. But that gives you standing as at least partially self-employed as the operator of a real estate investment business.

Which gives you an out to do stated income, possibly even A paper. You’re going to have to state that you earn more income than you do. Given the environment today, a good loan officer looking to cover themselves is going to want you to acknowledge that you can make whatever the payment is really going to be. I don’t care if you need $6000 per month to qualify and you tell me that you make $12,000 per month, or $120,000. Any time you are looking at stated income, you’re looking at a situation that is vulnerable to abuse, both from the point of view of a consumer being put into a loan they really cannot afford, and from the point of view of a bank lending money based upon a credit score and source of income that really may not be there. This one is especially vulnerable to the latter concern in the current market, and I would likely take a real careful look at any bank statements that pass through my hands to make certain it’s not patently disprovable. If it makes a borrower uneasy, well half of the reason is to protect them. Stated Income may be colloquially called “liar’s loans”, but that is not what they are intended for, and in this case you are intentionally overstating income in order to qualify under unrealistic underwriting rules. Furthermore, not every lender will permit this.

The second approach is NINA – a No Income, No Asset loan, also known as “no ratio” – meaning no debt to income ratio. These are much easier to do for the loan officer, as they’re completely driven off credit score, but carry higher rates. Nor do you have to state a higher income than you make, as there is no debt to income ratio computation on these loans. On the other hand, especially if you’re talking about your personal residence, as long as you’re in a low loan to value situation, you may get a better rate from an A paper lender without a prepayment penalty, as opposed to doing a subprime loan with a pre-payment penalty.

There is serious potential for abuse in this situation, even if it is theoretically allowed under the rules. So be very upfront about what is going on with anyone you come into contact with. You, as a loan applicant, should never be dealing directly with the underwriter – as an anti-fraud measure, every lender I’m aware of prohibits it and cancels any loan in process if you happen to interact with the underwriter. But this is allowed by the nature of stated income and NINA loans. Self-employed people and commissioned salesfolk have to file taxes, also, and tax forms are the preferred method for documenting income. Nonetheless, because there are significant deductions that would not otherwise be allowed due to the fact that you’re paying your bills with “before tax” money whereas most folks are paying with “after tax” money, it does make sense to do it this way. Provided you don’t talk yourself into a loan that you cannot really afford.

Caveat Emptor

Read your article on negative arm loans, and for the person who only owns a residence and most real estate investors it will not work. I own several properties, and the parcel to be refinanced is ocean front…so is going up in value more than the negative arm would be when refinanced after prepay penalty period. Cash out would be used to pay off other mortgages, thereby increasing my cash flow for a few years. Does your advice against negative arms apply in my situation?

I believe he’s referring to this article.

This is actually an excellent question, and the answer is … maybe. At least it is not a clear “no”, unlike so much of what the Negative Amortization loan is misused for. This largely goes beyond the scope of what I’m trying to do with this site, but I’ll take a swing at it.

The fact is that I can construct a scenario that goes either way, and the implicitly high appreciation rate you mention has surprisingly little to do with it.

The positive is that your other loans are paid off! To use Orwell-speak, this is maximum plusgood.

The negative is that this loan now includes every dollar you previously owed. Furthermore, there may be negative tax connotations to the fact that all of your interest expense now comes from one property, as opposed to being able to directly match it against individual properties with individual incomes. If interest against one property is greater than the income for that one property, you may not be able to take it all. I’m not clear on the implications of the tax code here (and I’d like to be educated), so consult with a CPA or Enrolled Agent.

Furthermore, your new loan won’t magically create any “lake” of dollars. In order to pay off the other loans, it’s going to have to be the size of all of them combined, plus any prepayment penalties, plus all costs of doing the loan, plus potential pre-payment penalties for the Negative Amortization loan.

Now consider:

If you make payment option one (the “nominal” or “as if your rate was 1 percent” payment), you are allowing compound interest to work against you. This is the force Einstein described as “the most powerful force in the universe”, and it’s working on the whole dollar amount of every single one of your current loans and then some.

Ouch.

No matter which payment you’re making, the rate you are being charged, (aka “what the money is costing you”) is not fixed, but variable month to month. As far as most commercial property loans are concerned, this is no big deal. They’re pretty much variable at “prime plus” anyway. However, I expect the MTA and COFI (upon which Negative Amortization loans are based) to continue rising as government borrowing increases, whereas I’m not so certain about prime, which for most banks is comparatively high by real and historical standards.

With all this said, it’s still very possible to construct winning scenarios, depending upon a variety of factors. You mention short-term cash flow, and that is certainly one possible justification. If short-term cash flow is all you’re looking for, and the money it will cost you later on is no big deal because you’re planning to buy down the prepayment penalty and sell in a short period of time. Yeah, you’ve added to your balance but you’ve got plenty of equity and you’d rather have a few hundred per month now than multiple thousands later. Think of it as a cash advance.

One of the things that negative amortization loans can do for you is make it easier for you to qualify for more loans on more properties. Because in loan qualification, the bank will only give you credit for 75 percent of prospective rents while dinging you for the full value of payments, taxes, fees, maintenance, etcetera, this can make it much harder to qualify than is realistic, given that in many markets the vacancy factor is less than five percent. You actually pay more, but you’re not obligated to. Particularly because many people own investment properties for the capital gain rather than the income potential (i.e. price speculation, rather than monthly income). On the other hand, just because a property has been appreciating rapidly does not mean it will continue to do so, beachfront or not. The market nationwide is entering a very different mode than it’s been in for the last few years. I can point to beachfront property here locally that’s lost a lot of value since early 2005. Price speculation is great when it works (which is most of the time), but is really scary when it doesn’t. It’s a reward for risk-taking, so don’t lose sight of the fact that it is a risk.

One other factor of doing this is that it can cause taxes on a sale to exceed net proceeds. Suppose you intend to sell the beachfront property in a couple of years, and it doesn’t gain any more ground from where it is right now. Many properties were bought for less than 10% of their current value. Let’s say you bought for ten percent of current value. If your loan is for eighty percent, and you pay six to seven percent in sale costs, you’re getting ninety-three to ninety four percent of value, leaving a net of thirteen or fourteen. But you owe long term capital gains of eighty-three or eighty-four times twenty percent – almost seventeen percent! This can force you to take another loan out, against one of those “free and clear” properties lest you owe the IRS penalties. Yes, 1031 and even a potential personal residence exclusion can modify or nullify this, but so can all the depreciation you may have taken over the years, and if you intended to 1035 the property that would tend to contra-indicate any reasons you had for the negative amortization loan.

Now, to be honest, my experience with commercial loans is limited, and I’ve never done a negative amortization commercial loan. What few clients I’ve had in that market have had different goals in mind, and being as I’m a sustainability type loan officer, I tend to attract sustainability type clients, where Negative Amortization loans are more indicative of a speculative (“risk taker”) type. I understand what’s going on, but it isn’t my primary approach to the issues. There are circumstances on investment properties where, unlike your primary residence, it can be very appropriate. Unfortunately, without full specifics, including time schedules, goals, reasons for holding investments, other investments, risk tolerances, etcetera, it’s difficult to tell if yours is one of them. My experience in dealing with people is telling me one thing, my sense of ledger evaluation is hinting at a different answer. But I hope I’ve given you a clear idea of the kinds of issues you need to look at with professional help.

Caveat Emptor

Many folks have no idea how qualified they are as borrowers.

There are two ratios that, together with credit score, tell how qualified you are for a loan.

The more important of these two ratios is Debt-to-Income ratio, usually abbreviated DTI. The article on that ratio is here. The less important, but still critical, ratio is Loan to Value, abbreviated LTV. This is the ratio of the loan divided by the value of the property. For properties with multiple loans, we still have LTV, usually in the context of the loan we are dealing with right now, but there is also comprehensive loan to value, or CLTV, the ratio of the total of all loans against the property divided by the value of the property.

Note that for instances where you may be borrowing more than eighty percent of the value of the home, splitting your loan into two pieces, a first and a second, is usually going to save you money. (See here for an example)

The maximum loan to value ratio you’re going to qualify for is largely dependent upon your credit score. The higher your credit score, the lower your minimum equity requirement, which translates to lower down payment in the case of a mortgage.

Credit score, in mortgage terms, is the middle of your credit scores from the 3 major bureaus. If you have an 800, a 480, and a 500, the middle score, and thence your credit score, is 500. If the third score is 780 instead of 500, your score is 780. If you only have two scores, the lenders will use the lower of the two. If you have only one score, most lenders will not accept the loan. Now, I’ve never seen scores that divergent, but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen. Usually, the three scores are within twenty to thirty points, and a 100 point divergence is fairly unusual. Despite what you may have heard or seen in advertising, according to Fair Issacson the national median credit score is 720. See here for details.

In order to do business with a regulated lender, you need a minimum credit score of 500. There are tricks to the trade, but if you don’t have at least one credit score of 500 or higher, you’re going to a hard money lender or family member.

Now, exactly what the limits are for a given credit score is variable, both with time and lender, even when you get into A paper. Subprime lenders will go higher than A paper, but the rates will also be higher. Nonetheless, there are some broad guidelines. At 500, only subprime lenders will do business with you, and they will generally only go up to about 75 percent of the value of the home. A few will go to 80 percent, but this is not a good situation to be in.

Currently, at about 580 credit score, you can still find subprime lenders willing to lend you 100 percent of the value of the home, providing you can do a full documentation loan. At 580 is also where Alt-A and A minus lenders start being willing to do business with you, although they won’t go 100 percent until higher credit scores.

At 620, the A paper lenders start being willing, in theory, to consider your full documentation conforming loan. They won’t do cash out refinances or “jumbo” loans until a minimum of 640, but they will do both purchase money and rate term at 620 or higher. They may not go 100 percent of value until 680, but they will go about eighty or maybe higher.

At 640 is where subprime lenders will start considering 100 percent loans for self-employed stated income borrowers. Not too long ago, I could find these down to 600, but the lenders have been raising these requirements of late. For w2 stated income (essentially, people who get a salary and don’t want to document income) the minimum for 100 percent is about 660 now. Mind you, if you can document enough income, it is in your interest to do so.

660 is where A paper will start considering conforming stated income loans. They may not go above 75 percent of value, but they won’t just reject you out of hand. At 680, they will consider jumbo stated income.

Now, it is to be noted that just because you can get a loan for only so much equity, it does not follow that you should. Whereas the way the leverage equation works does tend to favor the smaller down payment, at least when prices are increasing, it can also sink your cash flow. So if the property is a stretch for you financially, it can be a smarter move to look at less expensive properties to purchase. I have seen many people recently who stretched to buy “too much house” only to lose everything because they bought right at market peak with a loan they could not keep up. Many of these not only lost every penny they invested, but also owe thousands of dollars in taxes due to debt forgiveness when the lender wrote off their loan.

There are other factors that are “deal-breakers”, but so long as your debt to income ratio is within guidelines and your loan to value is within these parameters, you stand an excellent chance of getting a loan. All too often, questionable loan officers will feed supremely qualified people a line about how they shouldn’t shop around because they’re a tough loan and “you don’t want to drive your credit score down.” First off, the National Association of Mortgage Brokers successfully lobbied congress to do consumers a major favor on that score a few years back. All mortgage inquiries within a fourteen day period count as the same one inquiry. Second, the vast majority of the time it’s just a line of bull to keep people from finding out how overpriced they are or to keep you from consulting people who may be able to do it on a better basis. I’ve talked to people with 750 plus credit scores, twenty years in their line of work, and a twenty percent down payment who had been told that, when the truth is that a monkey could probably get them a loan! By shopping around, you will save money and get more information about the current status of the market.

Caveat Emptor

Many people have no clue how qualified they are as buyers, or borrowers.

There are two ratios that, together with the credit score, determine how qualified someone is for a loan.

The first, and by far the more important, is debt to income ratio, usually abbreviated DTI. This is a measurement of how easy it will be for you to repay the loan given your current income level.

The debt to income ratio is measured by dividing total monthly mandatory outlays to service debt into your gross monthly income. Yes, due to the fact that the tax code gives you a deduction for mortgage interest, you qualify based upon your gross income. This ratio is broken into two discrete measurements, called front end ratio and back end ratio, for underwriting standards. The front end ratio is the payments upon the proposed loan only (i.e. principal and interest), whereas the back end ratio adds in all debt service: credit cards, installment loans, finance obligations, student loans, alimony and child support, and property taxes and homeowner’s insurance on the home as well. The front end ratio is almost ignored; I cannot remember an instance of when front-end was a deal-breaker. The thing that will break most loans is the back end ratio, to the point where some lenders don’t really care about the front end ratio anymore.

Now, as to what gets counted, the answer is simple. The minimum monthly payment on any given debt is what gets counted. It doesn’t matter if you’re paying $500 per month, if the minimum payment is $60, that’s what will be counted.

“Can I pay off debt in order to qualify?” is a question I see quite a lot and the answer depends upon your lender and the market you’re in. For top of the market A paper lenders, who have to underwrite to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac standards, the answer is largely no. If you pay off a credit card where the balance is $x, there’s nothing to prevent you going out and charging it up again. Even if you close is out completely, the thinking (borne out in practice, I might add) is that you can get another one for the same amount trivially. “Won’t they just trust me to be intelligent and responsible?” some people will ask. The answer is no. Actually, it’s bleep no. A paper is not about trust. A paper is about you demonstrating that you’re a great credit risk. Even installment debt is at the discretion of the lender’s guidelines. If they believe that what you really did was borrow money from a friend or family member who expects to be repaid, expect it to be disallowed. Therefore, the time to pay off or pay down your debts is at least 30 days before your credit is run and before you apply for a loan.

For subprime loans, the standards are looser because the lender controls the money. As long as they can see where the money is coming from, they will usually allow the payoff in order to qualify.

Now many folks think that stated income loans don’t have a DTI requirement. They do. As a matter of fact, stated income is even less forgiving than full documentation loans in this regard. As I keep telling folks, for full documentation, I don’t have to prove every penny you make, I only have to prove enough to justify the loan. If what I proved before falls short, but if the client has more income, I can always prove more. For stated income, we still have to come up with a believable income for your occupation, and then the debt to income ratio is figured off of that. Even if the lender is agreeing not to verify income, they’re still going to be skeptical if you change your story. “You told me you make $6000 per month three days ago. Now you’re telling me you make $7000 per month. Which is it? Please show me your documentation!” In short, this loan has now essentially changed to a full documentation loan at stated income rates. Nor are they going to believe a fast food counter employee makes $80,000 per year. They have resources that tell them how much people of a given occupation make in the area, and if you’re outside the range it will be disallowed. So you need to be very careful to make certain the loan officer knows about all the monthly payments on debt you’re required to make. Sometimes it doesn’t show up on the credit report and the lender finds out anyway. This has nothing to do with utilities (unless you’re in the process of paying one of them back). That’s just living expenses, and you could, in theory, cancel cable TV if you needed to. Once you owe the money, you are obligated to pay it back.

As for what is allowable: A paper maximum back end debt to income ratios vary from thirty-eight to forty-five percent of gross monthly income. I’m a big fan of hybrid adjustables, but they are, perversely, harder to qualify for under A paper rules than the standard 30 year fixed rate loan despite the lower payments. This is because there will be an adjustment to your payment at a known point in time, and you’re likely to need more money when it does. Note that for high credit scores, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have automated underwriting programs with a considerable amount of slack cut in.

Some things count for more income than you actually receive. Social security is the classic example of this. The idea is that it’s not subject to loss. Once you’re getting it, you will be getting it forever, unlike a regular paycheck where you can lose the job and many people do.

Subprime lenders will usually, depending upon the company and their guidelines, go higher than A paper. It’s a riskier loan, and you can expect to pay for that risk via a higher interest rate, but even with the higher rate, most people qualify for bigger loans subprime than they will A paper. Some subprime lenders will go as high as sixty percent of gross income on a full documentation loan.

Whatever the debt to income ratio guideline is, it’s usually a razor sharp dividing line. On one side you qualify, on the other, you probably don’t. If the guidline is DTI of 45 or less, and you are at 44.9, you’re in, at least as far as the debt to income ratio goes. On the high side, waivers do exist but they are something to be leery of. Whereas many waivers are approved deviations from guidelines that may be mostly a technicality, debt-to-income ratio cuts to the heart of whether you can afford the loan, and if you’re not within this guideline, it may be best to let the loan go. You’ve got to eat, you probably want to pay your utility bills, and you only make so much. Debt to Income ratio is there for your protection as much as the bank’s.

Caveat Emptor.